Want to know a more about canoe definitions & terms?
Want to know a more about canoe definitions & terms?
Want to know a more about canoe definitions & terms?
It’s been a while since I’ve laid out a small dissertation about the differences in kevlar canoes. As years go by and the markets change, people who know the differences are a fading group. I will change all that right here. All kevlar canoes are NOT the same despite looking similar to one another.
Souris River Canoes hulls are all made with kevlar cloth, a few other layers of cloths including polyesters and fiber glass and most importantly: epoxy resin. All Brand X kevlar canoes are made with kevlar cloth, a few other layers of different cloths and important for you not to miss: vinylester resin.
The resin used to hold the cloth in the shape of a canoe is first and foremost, the most important part of the canoe. A canoe could be built out of newspapers or old sweatshirts but the only way that is possible it to use resin. The type of resin used, along with literally the “cut of the cloth” defines the canoe’s overall strength and durability.
I’m going to cut to the chase. Epoxy resin is much tougher than vinylester resin. Epoxy resin used in a Souris River Canoe is a heat-cured epoxy. After the canoe has been laid out in a female mold with wet epoxy resin, they wheel it into a big oven and bake it for several hours. Baking epoxy to cure it makes it runny and it seeps into the multiple fibrous tendrils that make up every kevlar fiber. When it cures (dries – although technically not the same as curing since drying means a solvent evaporates and curing is a chemical reaction that leads to a hardened, non-liquid, state.) it becomes inert “plastic” but not before it bonds all those fibers together to make them more of a single piece of material with kevlar reinforcements running throughout.
Brand X uses vinylester resin which is a resin that costs far less than epoxy. It too, makes a plastic with kevlar reinforcements running throughout when applied to a kevlar cloth. However, the process by which it cures, while still a chemical reaction, is different than epoxy. Vinylester resin used in Brand X kevlar canoes is cured at room temperature or about 74 degrees F. That means, they wet out the kevlar in a female mold, and once saturated with the excess resin scraped out with squeegees, (just like Souris River) the canoes are allowed to cure (dry) at room temperature overnight. The next day, they beat the mold off of the hull with a rubber mallet, install the gunwales, seats, thwarts and yoke and out the door it goes.
At this very point, the two canoe brands have severely parted ways. Inherent with epoxy resin, when it is done curing, it is done curing. It does not age for lack of a better term. What that means is the Souris River, after 10 years of paddling, when you go to do a repair on the canoe (yes, they’re tough, but nothing is as tough or heavy as aluminum, eh? You may need to fix something once in a while), that old epoxy resin is still the same as it was the day it came out of the over 10 years ago. So, when you take out some new epoxy resin to do a repair, you are bonding apples to apples – the same stuff. Doesn’t make sense without the following comparison in the next two paragraphs.
Inherent with Brand X kevlar canoes, the room-temp-cured resin first, did not soak all through those kevlar fibers in each strand bundle that is woven together to make a cloth. When curing at room temperature, that vinylester resin doesn’t have a chance to soak in because it begins to cure and thickens before the soaking begins. That means it ends up encapsulating the fiber bundles. Well, that means, too, that less resin is needed and it makes the canoe lighter. It also results in the canoe not being as tough. If you rip the resin coat off the fiber bundle, water can enter into those fibers through capillary action. Once that happens, an entire region in a canoe can delaminate from other fibers in the cloth or the foam core floor they use in Brand X to keep the floor of the canoe from flopping around. It’s a diamond shaped looking thing with ribs running up the sides. The foam ribs also support the sides of Brand X canoes because they are not as tough with the lesser resin saturation inherent with vinylester resin canoes.
But, it doesn’t end there. Vinylester resin that has been air-cured continues to cure into perpetuity. It’s really not done curing, it’s just not sticky any more. What this means is that this resin gets more and more brittle with each day. The resin is susceptible to UV radiation and that ages it. Now, to be fair, epoxy resin is affected by UV as well but in a different way. It does not become brittle. It sloughs off a little at a time. But, unlike vinylester resin, you can reapply epoxy with great results and a paint roller. Not only is vinylester more brittle in the long run, it is no longer the same vinylester resin it was when the canoe was first built. This means than when you put your foot through the side of a brittle vinylester resin canoe and need to repair that, the company Brand X will tell you to go to the local Fleet Farm and buy some polyester resin and the MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) hardener or organic peroxide which might be the same stuff. I don’t know, I’m not a chemist but over the years, I have spoken with several regarding the advantages and strength of epoxy compared to vinylester and those advantages are very significant.
At the molecular level, vinylester resin links to itself with a relative few bonds when compared to epoxy. Less link ups means less strehgth. Epoxy resin is noted for having many, many cross-linked bonds to that which it is being glued together. For that reason epoxy provides a substantially stronger bond of materials and is also noted for it’s ability to bond non-related materials, such as a copper penny to a piece of wood. Vinylester resin may bond those two together, but then it will let go at the most inopportune of times. The cross linking of molecules in epoxy also give it the ability to flex repeatedly without falling apart or cracking. The whole focus about Souris River Canoes is their ability to flex under duress to minimize damage caused by driving it up on a rock. Brand X, with their foam core bottom can be damaged significant when one drive them over a rock 4 inches below the surface and invisible. Souris Rivers just slide over it with no exposed kevlar fibers resulting from the impact. As you recall above, exposed kevlar fiber bundles in vinylester resin are like tiny hollow tubes that can suck up water and cause delamination at that area. It doesn’t always happen, but when it does, you end up with a soft spot that needs your attention or it can continue to spread.
Putting a patch on an older Brand X canoe using their recommended method of applying cheap polyester resin to a piece of fiberglass or kevlar patch and sticking it onto the canoe will, more often than not, result in that patch letting go in six months to a year. But it usually does not all let go. Nosiree – only half lets go and the rest stays stuck to the canoe so you have like an “air brake on the wing of a 747”. Or, you could consider it a water scoop since they usually let go against the direction of travel. In my opinion, polyester resin probably has it’s place somewhere out there in making fiberglass bathtubs with a thick layer of gel coat, but it’s a worthless product for working on canoes. It is also hard to work with as well. It’ll say on the container of resin to add 2-3 drops of hardener. Well, which one is it? 2 drops or 3 drops? Depending on the ambient temp and humidity levels, 3 drops could turn the resin in your pot into a smoking, toxic mess that smells like burning styrofoam beer coolers. (been there, done that – an wow, does it get hot! Epoxy will do the same if you put too much in a con)
Epoxy on the other hand is more precise in it’s requirements for hardener and those different hardeners can affect cure time. West System 205 hardener can set up in 9-12 minutes, but their 207 special coatings hardener can go to 6 hours before hardening the resin mix depending on temps. West System epoxy mixed with either hardener achieves full strength over 7 days. It’s will be dry to the touch and usable before that, but that is when final cure is complete. Polyesters continue to cure (and change as a result) forever. Now, I mention West here because that is what I recommend for repair work mainly because I know it well and have used if for 20 years with excellent success about 99% of the time. There are other marine epoxies out there that are quite good as well, but I just never had a reason for changing. They are all expensive. Note: Souris River does not use West System in the building of their canoes. They use a purer form of resin with two hardeners injected into it at two different temps. Then it is applied by hand in a 94 degree F room and then wheeled into a large oven to be heat-cured. West System has additives to make it cure for repairs without the baking-part required. If I had to be heating up resin and baking it, that would be a pain for me and everybody else who doesn’t have a canoe-sized oven.
So those are differences in Souris River Canoes vs. all the other canoes out there. Sure, there might be a garage-outfit somewhere using West to make a canoe a year, but in the professionally, hand-crafted, production realm of canoe building, SR is the only epoxy kevlar canoe builder of which I’m aware.
More on Hull Shapes and Design in future posts.
Note: This is an older post from years ago. You will see me vary my technique here and there throughout this website. Don’t get all excited. The principle always remains the same. If you don’t have a squeegee or a little roller doohickey, it doesn’t matter. Use something else to arrive at the following list of procedures. The tools do not make the result. The principle does. I have esxplain this because people go into a tizzy if they can find a squeegee. You could also use a soft sponge over the top of the plastic wrap to aid in pushing out the air bubbles from the resin. Be inventive. Be MacGuyver. The basic principles to applying a patch to anything (talking about kevlar canoes here) are as follows:
Installing Skid Plates on your canoe? Click Here
This CAN happen! This Souris River Wilderness 18 in kevlar was whapped into something so hard (flew off a canoe rack when some clueless individual didn’t bother tying this 46 lb. canoe down) there was a big dent in one gunwale and a 14″ stress mark in the side. The crack you see below did not leak a drop and the canoe actually went out on a 7 day canoe trip in the stressed condition which is way more than you can expect to see in other non-flexing, foam-core kevlars made with vinylester resin. The majority of name-brand, non-epoxy-resin canoes would have been unusable-until-repaired with this damage. Nonetheless, this Souris River did need to be repaired to prevent further fiber breakdown in the future so here’s how I did it using West System Epoxy resin that we sell here at Red Rock. This is how you would repair most cloth-layup canoes with cracks or punctures as well, only you would need to apply the same patch on the inside (minus the plastic wrap).
1. Sand area of crack with 80 grit sand paper.
After 5+ hours, peel off the plastic. Wait’ll tomorrow before putting it on the water. This patch turned out well with smooth “ramps” of resin along the edge of the patch, minimizing resistance in the water, or more importantly, obstacles such as rocks, etc.
Epoxy Resin vs. Vinylesters and Polyesters
Here’s a different way to look at epoxy resin vs. vinylester resin as was explained to me by an R & D chemist named Mike Daniels. Mike works for a huge Minnesota company and he does know his chemistry. Plus he has 25+ years of making all kinds of cool stuff and is an expert wood crafter. His stripper canoes and kayaks are rather spectacular. You just can’t help but trust a guy who is a seasoned chemist, canoe builder, and canoe paddler.
Vinylester resin forms a chain of molecules that kind of wrap themselves around a kevlar fiber. Now, I know that this is really perhaps oversimplified, but I am a simple man and definitely not a chemist. Using carabiners, the first photo on the left represents a strand of vinylester resin. Pretend that the paddle shaft is a kevlar fiber and the vinylester resin (carabiner chain) wraps around it in a fairly linear path. Those vinylester resin molecules follow each other in a chain formation and end up winding around the kevlar fibers as well. Sure, it’s strong, but it doesn’t make anywhere near as many contact binding points with the side of the very-nonporous, kevlar fibers as epoxy resin does.
Vinylester Resin around a kevlar fiber
(Actually a carabiner chain around a canoe paddle)
Epoxy resin around a kevlar fiber
(not nearly enough carabiners to do a great representation – but I think it works)
Crosslinking of Epoxy
The photo on the right represents the cross-linking that goes on with epoxy resin. The number of strands of molecules that link in from the sides of the kevlar fiber also link to each other and to other kevlar fibers fibers as well. The cross linking of molecules is virtually infinite and this results in a zillion contact points with each kevlar fiber in the canoe – and there are bazillions of those. Cross linking increases as the epoxy resin cures. In the photo above, I didn’t have nearly enough carabiners (needed a bazillion) to make a really great representation of epoxy’s molecular cross linking, but I think you can get the idea. The molecules of epoxy would actually link together to the fiber from all angles and directions. The number of links of epoxy molecules is to a kevlar fiber would be much harder to count than the number of links made by vinylester resin to a kevlar fiber.
The only way SR’s blend of epoxy resin cures is through heating it in an oven. The oven curing process and the need for high room temperatures to make the resin runny enough to squeegee thru four layers of cloth, are two of the main reasons you do not see epoxy resin used in all of the various Brand X kevlar canoes out there today. Vinylester resin is just easier to use at the factory level but nowhere near as strong as epoxy resin. The cross linking is just not there in vinylester resin and the kevlar fibers can pull out of the glue more easily when stressed via paddling into a big rock or over a log. A heat-cured, epoxy resin, Souris River canoe, because of the nearly infinite number of cross-linked epoxy molecules making contact with every fiber in the canoe (plus each other due to the catalytic reaction that goes on), a Souris River Canoe essentially becomes one big honkin’, continuous, plastic, molecule. Vinylester resin does not do this to the magnitude of epoxy resin and is therefore substantially weaker.The epoxy resin that Souris River Canoes uses is a very pure form of resin. It does not have the additives that are inside of the epoxy resins that us ordinary folks us can buy at the grocery store. Common epoxy has additives to allow mere mortals to use it at room temperature and actually have it cure while doing the cross-link thing. Even though the resin is still incredibly strong with additives that facilitate curing and allow us to apply it without heating it up, it is not as strong as the epoxy resin SR uses. Souris River’s epoxy formula is close to solid at room temperature and uses a combination of two different hardeners. It has to be heated up just to get it out of the container.
Thanks to Mike Daniels for ‘splaining epoxy cross linking to me and subsequently, to you.One final point – Heat-cured epoxy resin is used in the carbon fiber composite, V-22 Osprey and in Cirrus Aircraft. When it comes to flying, guess what? They don’t use vinylester resin in any important parts like the wings, fuselage, etc. That says a lot to me. If it doesn’t mean much to you, you haven’t been paying attention to all this typing.
Even More Information
Here is some other technical data that I gleaned off of epoxy resin websites by Maas and West Systems. (If you think this is just a sales pitch, heck, you’re sitting here looking at this web page on the internet – use Google and research it for yourself.) You may find it interesting regarding the differences between Epoxy Resin and Vinylester or Polyester Resins. In case you don’t already know it, Souris River Canoes are all made with a very high grade epoxy resin. Pretty much everybody else in the canoe world uses either vinylester resin and some the weaker polyester resin.
In the marine industry, liquid plastics, namely epoxies, polyesters, and vinylesters are used to saturate (wet out) the fibers of wood, glass, kevlar amarid, or carbon to form a fiber reinforced plastic (FRP). To create a quality part, adhesion to the fibers is the most important factor. Not all resins keep their grip on fibers equally.
Epoxy resin is known in the marine industry for its incredible toughness and bonding strength. Quality epoxy resins stick to other materials with 2,000-p.s.i. vs. only 500-p.s.i. for vinylester resins and even less for polyesters. In areas that must be able to flex and strain WITH the fibers without micro-fracturing, epoxy resins offer much greater capability. Cured epoxy tends to be very resistant to moisture absorption. Epoxy resin will bond dissimilar or already-cured materials which makes repair work that is very reliable and strong. Epoxy actually bonds to all sorts of fibers very well and also offers excellent results in repair-ability when it is used to bond two different materials together. Initally, epoxy resin is much more difficult to work with and requires additional skill by the technicians who handle it.
Polyester resin is the cheapest resin available in the marine industry and offers the poorest adhesion, has the highest water absorption, highest shrinkage, and high VOC’s. Polyester resin is only compatible with fiberglass fibers and is best suited to building things that are not weight sensitive. It is also not tough and fractures easily. Polyesters tend to end up with micro-cracks and are tough to re-bond and suffer from osmotic blistering when untreated by an epoxy resin barrier to water. This is really cheap stuff.Vinylester resins are stronger than polyester resins and cheaper than epoxy resins. Vinylester resins utilize a polyester resin type of cross-linking molecules in the bonding process. Vinylester is a hybrid form of polyester resin which has been toughened with epoxy molecules within the main moleculer structure. Vinyester resins offer better resistance to moisture absorption than polyester resins but it’s downside is in the use of liquid styrene to thin it out (not good to breath that stuff) and its sensitivity to atmospheric moisture and temperature. Sometimes it won’t cure if the atmospheric conditions are not right. It also has difficulty in bonding dissimilar and already-cured materials. It is not unusual for repair patches on vinylester resin canoes to delaminate or peel off. As vinylester resin ages, it becomes a different resin (due to it’s continual curing as it ages) so new vinylester resin sometimes resists bonding to your older canoe, or will bond and then later peel off at a bad time. It is also known that vinylester resins bond very well to fiberglass, but offer a poor bond to kevlar and carbon fibers due to the nature of those two more exotic fibers. Due to the touchy nature of vinylester resin, careful surface preparation is necessary if reasonable adhesion is desired for any repair work.
By Red Rock Wilderness Store
Here’s a canoe that has been neglected. This 2001 Souris River Quetico 16 served Red Rock as a reliable rental solo canoe. During the summer of 2001, it found it’s way around the famous Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness taking care of it’s paddler and coming home again, time after time. Then, when winter approached, we set it on top of a relatively obscure canoe trailor for lack of a better storage place on the 4th rung where, for inexplicable reasons, it stayed for all the rest of the years until the present day. It was cruel and I am ashamed…
A customer came along looking for a solo and Curt remembered the Q-16 on the rack. They pulled it down and noted that after spending over 2600 days, exposed to the elements, uncared for, neglected, and frying in the sun for 6 hours per day, the inside of the canoe was in pretty nice shape. The outside was a different story. I’m going to show that story to you, the reader, now.
This is a story of happiness, followed by neglect, then desperation, then joy. OK – no desperation – it’s still only a canoe. This is the tale of a user-friendly, epoxy resin, kevlar solo canoe made by Souris River resting in oblivion, as Mother Nature picked at it unrelentingly. According to all the internet afficionados from the various canoeing bulletinboards, (those self-proclaimed experts of all things “canoe”), this epoxy/kevlar canoe should now…be…dead. After all, epoxy resin degrades in sunlight. It breaks down. It falls apart. (Read this next sentence like Shatner would) It…is…susceptible to the elements, the beast called…the outdoors.
To all the experts, I say once again, BULL. To the masters of misinformation, the worriers of all things canoe, the panickers of performance, I ask once again, “Why don’t you just ALL shut up?” Again, you are talking out of turn and making good people worry with much ado about nothing.
In fact, for those of you who hold out among the last bastion of thinking humans, the following story in pictures will be interesting and helpful. To those blind followers of the vinylester/kevlar walkway, you will be sputtering that this simply cannot be possible because you’ve heard epoxy falls apart with extreme exposure to the elements.
Sorry to crunch your canoe…
Here it is. 7 years of Momma Nature hammering this poor, innocent hunk of kevlar.
This is NOT gravel. It’s the scene of black dirt forming with micro plant life on the hull. Possibly the early throws of life as it begins the evolutionary process along the path to becoming dinosaurs… or asparagus.
Here’s a closer shot of the absolute sign that this canoe should be dead by any other canoe expert standards: lichens! When you can feed your reindeer herd with the plants growing on your canoe, that must mean the bulletin-board afficionados are right about epoxy resin canoes, eh?
Here I sand off the lichens and I’m using (gasp, shock, sputter!) 80 grit sandpaper. YES! 80 grit even if you think – no, believe – it’s too harsh, that is not the case with a used Souris River Canoe! Go ahead, second-guess my technique all day long…you’ll still be wrong.
Oh, my stars and garters! If you look close at this sanded region, you will note that unlike anything Brand X canoes ever made in kevlar canoes, Souris River uses a thin layer of fiberglass on the outside. Guess what? Fiberglass, unlike kevlar, can be sanded safely. You know what it means when you see the fiberglass cross hatches on a SR Canoe? Nothing.
Moved canoe inside after sanding. Way less fiberglass dust inside as a result. Always wear a mask when sanding glass. Makes sharp, itchy dust. Before bringing inside, I hosed down the sanded canoe with a garden hose to take off the dust and let it dry for a day before coating with epoxy resin. Please, ignore messy shop.
Now, I could have just given this canoe two coats of varnish and called it even, but since the fiberglass was fairly exposed on the outside, I applied West System epoxy resin. Epoxy is harder than varnish and really strong. It took about 13 pumps of resin coat this entire canoe. I could varnish this canoe after the epoxy cures for added UV protection although it’s not the end of the world if I don’t.
I used the canoe as my personal paint tray. Just dump and roll.
Here you see more of the rolling process. I used a foam roller because it was the only thing I could find. Fortunately, that’s what I prefer although a low-knapped fuzzy roller would have worked, too.
Here you can see the wet epoxy resin on the left half and yet another clearer view of the fiberglass layer after being sanded with (OMG!) 80 grit sandpaper and washed with a garden hose!!!!
Here is the finished product. Whew, that was tough and extremely technical as you have just seen. Sand, hose, paint. I need a degree in engineering to figure that out. Note the color came back, too! 7+ years of frying, freezing and frickaseeing and this lichen loving canoe is in A1 operating condition.
Interestingly enough, 7+ years of withstanding 100+ degree F temps in the sun down to -45 degrees below (real temp, not that phony windchill stuff) and 24 inches of snow, this Souris River Quetico 16 (epoxy resin and kevlar cloth) is unharmed. Now, I gotta ask what you think would have happened to a vinylester resin/kevlar canoe if it spent 7 years on the top bars of a lonely, forgotten, canoe trailer in northern Minnesota? I know what would happen, but do the canoe afficionados know it too?
"Painting warms the soul and remains a friend for a lifetime" - Joe Baltich
Art with Function
Being the dealer means more than just selling the canoe
Being the dealer means more than just selling the canoe